Relationships and Community - Shanthini, Alex, Brandon, Cassie, and Javier

1. The boys relationships on the island have altered. Instead of looking after the signal fire, Jack and the hunters let the signal fire die out, I think not by acident, but more so because Jack doesnt want to be rescued because then whatever power/ control he develops on the island will fade away.

2. Chapter 1-2

2.1. "But there was a stillness about Ralph as he sat that marked him out: there was his size, and attractive appearance; and most obsurely, yet most powerfully, there was the conch" (Golding, 22) (Shanthini)

2.1.1. The 1st thing the boys do is elect a leader, without even knowing anyone they need someone to make decisions for them. It's interesting how the conch, which Ralph blew, was their 1st impression on him, resulting in a leadership position. (Shanthini)

2.1.2. I agree that it is interesting how the conch affected the other boys' points of view on Ralph. I think that they automatically saw him as powerful because and only because of the conch. I think that if someone else had blown the conch, they would have saw that boy as the appropriate leader. (Cassie)

2.2. "'Let him have the conch!' shouted Piggy. 'Let him have it!'" (Golding 35). (Cassie)

2.2.1. I think that Piggy is the only one that really cares about the other boys. All the older boys just seem to care about themselves and their friends but not the little kids. I think that Piggy is going to be valuable, but I don't think that he will ever become leader because of the way he is treated by others. (Cassie)

2.2.2. I agree that Piggy will never be a respected individual on the island. Piggy provides an intellectual perspective on the boys' stay on the island, but the older boys all clearly disrespect him, and ridicule him. I also think it is interesting how one recurring event in the novel is the hunting of pigs. This being said, Piggy might resemble some characteristics of these pigs, including his death and his disrespect. (Shanthini)

2.2.3. (Shanthini)

2.3. "The tall boy shouted at them. Choir! Stand still! Wearily and obedient, the choir huddled into line and stood there swaying in the sun. (Golding, pg. 20) -Alex

2.3.1. From the beginning of the novel, Jack (The tall boy) had control over the choir boys, which related in his nomination as the group leader. Their relationship is the beginning to Jack's control issues; him having control over the choir appeared to make him believe he should have control over all of the boys. -Alex

2.3.2. I never thought about Jack's control over the choir in the beginning of the book having affect over his obsession later in the book. Now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. (Cassie)

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2.4.1. Analysis

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2.5.1. Analysis

3. Chapter 5-6

3.1. "Hasn't anyone got any sense? We've got to relight that fire. You never thought of that, Jack, did you? Or don't any of you want to be resuced?" (Golding 102). (Cassie)

3.1.1. I think that Ralph is finally starting to thing rationally. I think that it started after Piggy mentioned the fire for the first time and that made him realize that they all needed to start thinking rationally like Piggy and then that was one of the reasons he started building the shelters. A couple of pages back I think Ralph had the first serious conversation with Piggy that we see. Ralph’s character has changed a lot since the beginning of the book and his relationships with Jack and Piggy have drastically changed as well. It seems like he sees the flaws in Jack’s behavior and treats Piggy with a little more respect and listens to him more than he did in the beginning of the book. (Cassie)

3.1.2. I agree that Ralph is thinking rationally at this point in the book when he is addressing the needs of the fire. However, I think that Ralph has thought intelligently like this before like when the boys were building the shacks, and blowing the conch. These ideas did originate with Piggy, and Ralph and the other boys were taking his mind for granted, not realizing the importance of Piggy in their society. Like Cassie was saying, Ralph is finally beginning to appreciate Piggy and the intelligence he brings to the island. (Shanthini)

3.2. "I know there isn't no beast - not with claws and all that, I mean - but I know there isn't no fear either" Piggy paused. "Unless -" Ralph moved restlessly. "Unless what?" "Unless we get frightened of people" (Golding, 84) (Shanthini)

3.2.1. This quote is interesting since Piggy suggests how the littluns may not be afraid of a beast, rather the other boys. People can always be intimidating. Especially on an island with particularly agressive boys such as Jack and the hunters. (Shanthini)

3.2.2. I never considered that the littluns were afraid of the boys, rather than the beast; but looking back on the situation they were facing I would have been terrified of Jack and his tribe, especially as the novel progressed. The littluns being younger children probably had little knowledge about the evil that existed in the world, and were more formed to the only thing that they'd experienced in their lives which was civility. Alex

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3.3.1. Analysis

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3.4.1. Analysis

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3.5.1. Analysis

4. Chapter 7-8

4.1. "They got his arms and legs. Ralph, carried away by a sudden thick excitment, grabbed Eric's spear and jabbed at Robert with it. (Golding 114). (Cassie)

4.1.1. In this section, where Ralph agoes along on a hunt, Ralph's savagery comes out. He stabs the pig and gets really excited about it, and he gets caught up in the reenactment of the kill and pretends to "kill" Robert. If Ralph, the leader, starts to become savage, then the whole group is going to fall apart and they would never get rescued. The only other person who would be able to keep things organized would be Piggy, but no one listens to him. Simon also could help with keeping things together, but, again, no one really listens to him, plus he doesn't really seem to get these kinds of ideas. (Cassie)

4.2. "I saw you. Right bang on his snout - Wheee!" Ralph talked on, excitedly. "I hit him all right. The spear stuck in. I wounded him!" (Golding, 113) (Shanthini)

4.2.1. I think Ralph feels like he needs to regain some of his leadership by hunting like Jack does. Ralph realizes all of the boys look up to the masculinity of Jack that Ralph lacks. I still feel like there is hostility between Jack and Ralph but Ralph wants to mend it. (Shanthini)

4.2.2. I agree that Ralph thinks he needs to regain some of his leadership, however I don't think that that was what he was thinking the moment he stuck the pig. I think he was just excited and maybe a little scared (that the pig was charging him or whatever) so he just acted upon reflexes and threw the spear. (Cassie)

4.3. "..He would like to have a pair of scissors and cut his hair- he flung the mass back- cut this filthy hair right back to half an inch. He would like to have a bath, a proper wallow with soap" (Golding, pg. 109) -Alex

4.3.1. Although the boys have been stranded on the island for quite sometime now, Ralph has had a battle within himself on whether to adapt to the savagery that is the new social "norms" on the island, or to remain civilized, and all though he participated in stabbing the boar, and the reenactment on Robert, Ralph has tried to stay true to his well mannered nature. I believe that Golding wrote this quote to show the reader that Ralph hasn't lost his civilized traditions, and is learning to contain his inner "beast." -Alex

4.3.2. "He discovered with a little fall of the heart that these were the conditions he took as normal now and that he did not mind," (Golding, 110) emphasizes how Ralph begins to accept how the civilized aspects of their community are almost gone at this point in the book. Ralph realizes that the boys have become accustomed to this uncivilized, dirty nature, and are continuing to fall from the grasp of civilization. (Shanthini)

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4.4.1. Analysis

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4.5.1. Analysis

5. Chapter 11-12

5.1. "' I'll lie up close; in that thicket down there,' he whispered,' so keep them away from it. They'll never think to look so close-'" (Golding 190). (Cassie)

5.1.1. I think that Ralph is trying to trust Sam and Eric to tell himself that he isn't alone. I think the fact that they told him most of the plan to kill him and the signals boosted Ralph's confidence and the fact that they were still on the same side, though they end up telling Jack where Ralph is anyways. (Cassie)

5.1.2. I agree that Ralph is trying to convince himself that he is not alone. After both Piggy and Simon, his only allies, died, he is alone with no one left to trust. Although forced to join Jack's side, Ralph still realizes Sam and Eric are decent people, and haven't completely stooped as low as Jack and Roger. For example, when Sam gave Ralph a chunk of meat during the hunt, this displayed Sam's hospitality. (Shanthini)

5.2. "Only now there's no signal going up. Ships may be passing. Do you remember how he went hunting and the fire went out and a ship passed by? And they all think he's best as chief. Then there was, there was... that's his fault too" (Golding, 170) (Shanthini)

5.2.1. The two groups of boys now are driven by completely different motives. Jack is trying to survive on the island by killing anything threatening, whereas Ralph and Piggy are trying to preserve any civilized behavior remaining in the boys, and try to get rescued. It is interesting how both Jack and Ralph thought the same way in the beginning of the book. Near the end of the book however, more boys have been slowly changing their opinions to match Jack's. (Shanthini)

5.2.1.1. I agree with your thoughts that the boys started out as similar authority figures, and each took a turn in their own direction. I think this just goes to show that when humans are put under overwhelming/ unusal situations their "true colors" show. Maybe that's what Golding meant by theire's a beast in all of us, it just depends on who the person is, and how kind hearted they are by nature on whether or not the beast will make it's appearnce. -Alex

5.2.2. Burnt out fire

5.3. "Awful things has been done on this island. I voted for you for chief. He's the only one who ever got anything done. So now you speak, Ralph, and tell us what. Or else-" (Golding 170, ) -Alex

5.3.1. It appears to me that Piggy is upset/ disapointed in Ralph's leadership skills. Although Ralph has done what was possible when it comes to looking after thee boys on the island, I agree that he could have stood up to jack a little more from the beginning; all though it may have resulted in a large conflict, at least it may have ended with only one boy having power on the island. I do understand why Golding didn't write the story that way, because I believe that he wanted to portray the differences between Ralph and Piggy wanting a democracy, and Jack wanting more of a dictatorship. - Alex

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5.5.1. Anaylisis

6. Chapter 3-4

6.1. "Roger gathered a handful of stones and began to throw them. Yet there was space round Henry, perhaps six yards in diameter, into which he dare not throw. Here, invisible yet strong, was the taboo of the old life. Round the squatting child was the protection of parents and school and policemen and the law. Roger's arm was conditioned by civilization that knew nothing of him and was in ruins" (Golding, 62). (Shanthini)

6.1.1. This quote shows how although mad at Henry, the boys are still civilized on the island. Roger doesn't want to harm/injure Henry in fear of getting in trouble. Although little consequences would happen to Roger if he harmed Henry, he is still thinking this way. (Shanthini)

6.1.2. Roger is the one throwing stones at Henry in chapter 3. Roger is also the one who throws stones and rolls the rock Piggy in Chapter 11. I thought it was kind of funny that he is the one that was throwing the stones both times. (Cassie)

6.2. "Meetings. Don't we love meetings?... I bet that if I blew the conch this minute, they'd come running. Then we'd be... very solumn and someone would say we ought to build a jet, or a submarine, or a TV set. When the meeting was over they'd work for five minutes, then wander off or go hunting." (Golding 51). (Cassie)

6.2.1. This quote says quite a bit about the community they have established. Obviously there is one leader, Ralph, who controls the meetings and such. When everyone hears the conch signal, they know that they need to come in for a meeting. From there, it’s not very organized. It doesn’t seem like many people take the meetings seriously, since they are suggesting to build things they have absolutely no resources for, such as a TV set. The quote also indicates that things aren’t very well enforced. Ralph and Jack are taking about things that they need/want to get done, but if they seriously wanted anything to be done at all, Ralph would have to make an announcement and they would make a schedule and such. (Cassie)

6.2.2. I agree with Cassie's analysis, however I think the quote mainly focuses on how Ralph may not be the most ideal, reinforcing leader the boys need. The boys clearly aren't very focused on the essential to survive. I think they need a leader that will motivate them to be productive on the island, but also engages them. At this point in the novel, Ralph has the power and authority, but feels his "followers" aren't helpful. Maybe this is why later in the novel the majority of the boys end up supporting Jack who seems more powerful as he provides meat. (Shanthini)

6.3. "You didn't ought to have let that fire out. You said you'd keep the fire going." (Golding pg. 71) - Alex

7. Chapter 9-10

7.1. "They bumped Piggy, who was burnt, and yelled and danced. Immediately, Ralph and the crowd of boys were united and relived by a storm of laughter. Piggy once more was the center of a social derision so that everyone felt cheerful and normal." (Golding 149). (Cassie)

7.1.1. Here, I'm sure the boys are relieved to be united, if only for a little while. However, the fact that they are all laughing at Piggy tells me that he is still at the bottom of the food chain, if you will. The fact that he was at the bottom from the beginning and is still is at the bottom now suggests to me that the boys can't exactly move up in their social classes. If they are the laughing-stock, they are always the laughing-stock. Similarly, if they are the leader, they will always be the leader. The one exception is Jack and when he makes his own tribe, but this kind of relationship seems to be reflected in his group as well. (Cassie)

7.2. "At once the crowd surged after it, poured down the rock, leapt on to the beast, screamed, struck, bit, tore. There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws" (Golding, 153) (Shanthini)

7.2.1. The boys are being described as beasts themselves as they try to kill the "beast". Golding describes the boys as beasts with "teeth" and "claws" as well as "bit" and "tore". This is similar to what Simon was saying before, that the beast is merely a representation of the evil inside themselves. (Shanthini)

7.3. "'Piggy? Are you the only one left?' 'There's some littluns.' 'They dont count. No biguns?' 'Oh Sam and Eric they're collecting wood' 'Nobody else?' 'Not that I know of'"(pg 155 Golding)(Javier Vargas)

7.3.1. this is getting to the point where ralph dosent have a group of kids following him (Javier)

7.3.2. I think that Ralph doesn't only not have boys following him anymore, but he is also losing power and control over everyone except Piggy. He has been losing power for a while, starting when Jack decided to leave the group but is just now realizing that he doesn't have much control anymore. It almost sounds like he can't believe that no one is left with him. (Cassie)

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7.4.1. Analysis

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